Will's Casino - Hráč kritizuje zásady odpovědného hazardu.

Good day

Please be assured that I have considered my complaints and not formulate and submit them meaninglessly. I briefly raised my issue on the WillsCasino discussion forum yesterday and Radka and Simon felt it was worth complaining about. So I'm filing this complaint, knowing my chances are extremely slim. But if I can get the casino to reconsider and change the player protection features, I'll be happy.

Casinos offer (must offer) various player protection features that aim to protect players from further loss of money. This is how protection is defined. There is the possibility of time out (freeze account / cool-off period) and the possibility of self-exclusion. This raises the question of what exactly is the difference between a «cool-off period» and self-exclusion. While you no longer have access to the account for a certain period of time with self-exclusion (exclusion), the account is frozen with the cool-off period. Frozen means that you can no longer make deposits and play. The purpose of the cool-off period is that you can no longer gamble away your winnings, but you can still access the account and make withdrawals. Otherwise, the distinction between cool-off period and self-exclusion is not necessary at all.

Since I tend to be addicted to gambling, I always look for casinos that offer a cool-off period (freeze account). So I can freeze the account after a win and have the win paid out step by step depending on the payout limit. Because WillsCasino offers a freez function, I registered and played there. When I was 2000 euros up I asked the chat if I can withdraw funds during a freeze period. Support said no. He also said that I have to get verified first, then withdraw the money and only then can I freeze my account. According to the casino, verification takes up to 48 hours. That means I could not have benefited from the player protection functions for 48 hours. As it is, I lost the 2000 because I couldn't freeze my account and deposited and lost another 1300 euros. This would not have happened if I could have withdrawn during a cool-off period.

I truly believe that during a cool-off period, players should be able to access the account, withdraw, upload documents for verification, but not be able to play or deposit. This is what 99% of casinos understand by the cool-off period. If I had withdrawn the money and uploaded the verification documents and if there was something wrong with that, I would have had to wait until the cool-off period was over and then start a withdrawal etc. This goes against the spirit of player protection, if his money is not protected from loss.

What does Casino Guru think about this? Should players be able to withdraw during a cool-off period?

I am asking the casino to reconsider the cool-off period and change it to allow future players to withdraw while the account is frozen. Cool-off period (freeze account) it's not the same as a self-exclusion, even if that's how you handle it. Furthermore, I claim my losses back in the amount of 3300 euros. I am also willing to make a deal if the casino is self-critical.

If Casino Guru would like documents (live chat conversations), please let me know.

Best regards

Guten Tag

Bitte sei versichert, dass ich meine Beschwerden überlegt und nicht sinnfrei formuliere und einreiche. Ich habe gestern im Diskussionsforum von WillsCasino mein Anliegen kurz erzählt und Radka und Simon waren der Meinung, dass es eine Beschwerde wert sei. Deshalb reiche ich diese Beschwerde ein, obwohl ich weiss, dass meine Chancen äusserst gering sind. Wenn ich aber erreichen kann, dass das Casino die Spielerschutzfunktionen überdenkt und ändert, bin ich schon zufrieden.  

Casinos bieten (müssen anbieten) verschiedene Spielerschutzfunktionen an, die die Spieler vor weiterem Geldverlust schützen sollen. So wird Schutz definiert. Es gibt die Möglichkeit der Auszeit (Freeze account / cool-off-period) und die Möglichkeit des Selbstausschusses. Hier stellt sich die Frage, was genau der Unterschied zwischen «cool-off-periode» und Selbstausschuss ist. Während man beim Selbstausschuss während eines bestimmten Zeitraums keinen Zugriff mehr auf das Konto hat (Ausschluss), ist bei der cool-off-periode das Konto eingefroren. Eingefroren meint, dass man keine Einzahlungen mehr tätigen kann und nicht mehr spielen kann. Der Sinn der cool-off-periode ist ganz klar, dass man seinen Gewinn nicht mehr verspielen kann, jedoch noch Zugriff auf das Konto hat und Auszahlungen vornehmen kann. Ansonsten braucht es die Unterscheidung zwischen cool-off-periode und Selbstausschluss gar nicht.

Da ich zur Spielsucht neige, suche ich mir immer Casinos aus, die eine cool-off-periode (freeze account) anbieten. So kann ich das Konto einfrieren nach einem Gewinn und den Gewinn je nach Auszahlungslimits step by step auszahlen lassen. Weil WillsCasino eine freez-funktion anbietet, habe ich mich dort registriert und gespielt. Als ich 2000 Euro im Plus war, habe ich den Chat gefragt, ob ich Gelder auszahlen lassen kann während einer Freeze-Periode. Der Support hat gesagt nein. Auch hat er gesagt, dass ich mich zuerst verifizieren lassen muss, dann das Geld auszahlen lassen und erst dann mein Konto einfrieren kann. Die Verifizierung dauert laut Casino bis zu 48 Stunden. Das heisst, ich hätte 48 Stunden gar nicht von den Spielerschutzfunktionen profitieren können. Wie es ist, habe ich die 2000 verloren, weil ich mein Konto nicht habe einfrieren können und nochmals 1300 Euro einbezahlt und verloren. Das wäre nicht passiert, hätte ich Auszahlungen während einer cool-off-periode vornehmen können.

Ich bin wirklich der Meinung, dass Spieler während einer Cool-off-Periode Zugriff auf das Konto haben sollten, Auszahlungen machen können, Dokumente für die Verifizierung hochladen können, aber nicht spielen und einzahlen können sollten. Das ist das was 99% der Casinos unter Cool-off-Periode verstehen. Hätte ich das Geld auszahlen lassen und die Dokumente zur Verifizierung hochgeladen und wäre damit etwas nicht in Ordnung gewesen, hätte ich warten müssen, bis die cool-off-periode vorbei wäre und dann nochmals eine Auszahlung starten etc. Das widerspricht dem Sinn des Spielerschutzes, wenn sein Geld vor dem Verlust nicht geschützt wird.

Was denkt Casino Guru darüber? Sollten Spieler während einer Cool-off-Periode Auszahlungen vornehmen können?

Ich bitte das Casino, die Cool-Off-Periode zu überdenken und so zu ändern, dass zukünftig Spieler Auszahlungen vornehmen können, während das Konto eingefroren ist. Cool-Off-Periode (Freeze-Account) ist es eben nicht das Gleiche wie ein Selbstausschluss, auch wenn ihr das so handhabt. Im Weiteren fordere ich meine Verluste zurück in Höhe von 3300 Euro zurück. Gerne bin ich auch bereit einen Deal einzugehen, sollte das Casino selbstkritisch sein.

Wünscht Casino Guru Dokumente (livechat-Unterhaltungen), dann bitte ich um Mitteilung.

Herzliche Grüsse 

Dear Mister_Schweiz,

Thank you very much for submitting your complaint. I’m sorry to hear about your problem. Unfortunately, as of now, there aren’t unified regulations that would be applied to all casinos and player protection tools are managed by the casino exclusively. Some casinos have a wide variety of responsible gambling tools but none of them is mandatory, and unfortunately, some casinos operate without them completely.

I am sure you understand that casinos usually are not able to adapt their tools to the special requirements of each player, although we agree, that this would be ideal. It isn't anything unusual if the casino requires documents to verify your identity before applying any responsible gambling tool. Moreover, many casinos just freeze the players' account during the cool-off period and completely disable the option to withdraw accumulated winnings.

Sadly, we are not in a position to force casinos to change their tools or to match them to the expectations of players.

Nonetheless, in order to judge this case completely, I would like to see all conversations between you and the casino regarding this issue. You can forward everything to my email address - kristina.s@casino.guru.

Thank you in advance for your reply.

Bets regards,

Kristina

Good day

Yes, your statements reflect my statements. That's why I didn't want to file a complaint at all. But I was encouraged to do so by Radka and Simon. Will's Casino - general discussion (casinoguru-de.com)

However, I think that there are licensors who require casinos to implement certain player protection features. If you already offer a cool-off period (freeze account), you should also guarantee the relevant purpose. otherwise it is simply misleading and arbitrary and misses the actual purpose massively. but am glad that casinoguru agrees that a casino should allow withdrawals during a cool-off period, otherwise it would just be a deactivation/self-exclusion. I also think it's a pity that I'm proactively asking for a cooling-off period and that I'm not granted one until I've gone through the verification process and withdrawal process, which lasts several days...

Guten Tag

Ja, deine Aussagen spiegeln meine Aussagen wieder. Deshalb wollte ich auch gar keine Beschwerde einreichen. Ich wurde aber von Radka und Simon dazu ermutigt. Will's Casino - generelle Diskussion (casinoguru-de.com)

Ich denke aber, dass es sehr wohl Lizenzgeber gibt, die den Casinos vorschreiben, bestimmte Spielerschutzfunktionen zu implementieren. Wenn man schon eine cool-off-periode anbietet (freeze-account) sollte man den diesbezüglichen zweck auch garantieren. ansonsten ist es einfach irreführend und willkürlich und verfehlt den eigentlichen zweck massiv. aber bin bin froh, dass casinoguru auch der meinung ist, dass ein casino während einer cool-off-periode auszahlungen erlauben sollte, ansonsten wäre es einfach eine deaktivierung / selbstauschluss. finde es auch schade, dass ich proaktiv nach einer abkühlungsphase frage und mir diese nicht gewährt wird, solange ich den mehrere tage andauernden verifizierungsprozess und auszahlungsprozess nicht durchlaufen habe...

PS: There is no obligation for a shop to offer apples. But if it offers apples, then it has to be apples. The casino offers a cool off period (freeze account) and I honestly understand and believe that I can freeze my account, meaning I get what they offer. 🙂

PS: Es gibt keine Pflicht, dass ein Geschäft Äpfel anbieten muss. Aber wenn es Äpfel anbietet, dann müssen es auch Äpfel sein. Das Casino bietet eine cool-off-periode (freeze account) an und ich versteh nach treu und glauben darunter, dass ich mein konto einfrieren kann, also das erhalte, was es anbietet. 🙂

Is there a reason why there is no longer an answer?

Gibt es einen Grund, weshalb keine Antwort mehr kommt?

Thank you for your reply, Mister_Schweiz. I completely agree with you and we would like to see all casinos implement the option of withdrawals during the active cool-off period. On the other hand, we consider responsible gambling tools to be some kind of "added value" for players. We don't think they are mandatory to have (with the exception of self-exclusion for players with gambling addiction) and currently, there is no set of rules that all casinos would have to follow when it comes to designing their own player protection tools.

If casinos decide you cannot access your funds at all when you freeze your account for a few days, we cannot go against that. The point of the cool-off period is to stop players from spending their money until they feel like they are able to control their spending, whether it is by completely blocking the account with funds still in it, or just limiting the option to spend the money in gameplay.

I am afraid that even though we would gladly see these tools working properly and according to our expectations, in cases like this, we cannot penalize casinos whose tools don't match our opinion, and unfortunately, there is not much more we could do here.

Nonetheless, I appreciate you sharing your experience and point of view with us. Please, do not hesitate to let me know if there is anything else we could help you with, otherwise, I will be forced to close this complaint. Thank you very much for your understanding.

Good day

I appreciate Casino Guru very much, but I am not satisfied at the moment. After Casino Guru missed the deadline to reply to me, I wrote a reminder. A few minutes later I get the answer that nothing can be done. You could have said that right at the beginning. Instead you wanted me to send the conversation I had with the casino. I did that. did you read the mails and chat transcripts at all? You don't respond at all, even though you wanted to see the documents. I'm sticking with it. An argument doesn't have to offer anything. But if it offers something, then it has to be what it offers, which didn't happen in this case. Player protection (not being able to gamble away money) is not guaranteed under the circumstances described above. I remember that Casino Guu (Radka) advised me to file a complaint. Now it seems that Casino Guru is closing the case because he doesn't have time (too many complaints) to deal with the case. Did you read the documents? I have not received any response regarding this.

Best regards

Dario

Please understand that Casino.Guru Complaint Resolution Center is not 24/7 live chat. I didn't reply as we also have days off. I would also like to emphasize, that all involved parties have 14 days (7+7) to reply to each complaint. Thank you very much for your consideration.

I asked for the communication between you and the casino because I wanted to review how the casino handled the situation. Even though I see that the support was not the most professional, they informed you how this tool worked at their casino, the support let you know that you cannot request withdrawals while the account is frozen and that you should withdraw your winnings either before or after. I am sorry, but there is nothing more we can do here.

As I explained earlier, casinos can design their player protection tools on their own and we are not in a position to ask casinos to change that as long as we don't see anything unfair going on. We would really like to help, but it is impossible for us this time.

Unfortunately, after gathering all the necessary information we are forced to reject this complaint. Sorry we were not able to help you with this one, but please, do not hesitate to contact us in the future, if you run into any issues with this or any other casino and we will try our best to help.